These are turbulent times. And the church is swirling in the maelstrom.
I was reminded of this turbulence as I reviewed Holy Soup’s top blog posts over the past year. Three topics catapulted to the top, fueled by viral sharing across the country and around the world. Here they are, with a few thoughts about what caused these topics to explode:
3. “The Church’s Frightful Kodak Moment.” People seemed captivated by examining the similarities between the demise of the Eastman Kodak Company and decline of the American church. Two big institutions. Each struggling to adapt (or not) to the changes around them.
The big response to this article prompted me to hunt down Steve Sasson, the Kodak engineer who tried to get his company to embrace digital photography in the 1970s. I eventually found Sasson and interviewed him for our documentary film “When God Left the Building.” He provided some additional insights about the Kodak story that have significant relevance to the church’s current challenges.
Sasson explained how Kodak muddled its mission. “We got confused as to what business we were in. Are we a chemical company, are we a film company, are we an imaging company. What are we?” I’m afraid the church today suffers from a similar confusion. Are we here to build attendance? to make the pew-sitters comfortable? to reach the lost? to keep our ministry jobs?
And Sasson talked about misreading the customer as digital photography emerged. “They didn’t care that the pictures were horrible, that the video was distorted. That didn’t matter to them at all. I was struck by the fact that quality was lost on them, but immediacy was everything. They used (photos) to instantaneously share their environment with their friends. They were using pictures differently.” Many church leaders today seem to believe that Sunday production quality trumps everything else, including addressing people’s longing for a relational approach to spiritual growth.
2. “The Rise of the Dones.” This post named a large and growing segment of the population–highly active, spiritually mature people, who are simply done with the structured church. The blog response largely divided into two camps: the church establishment and the Dones themselves.
Many current church leaders chastised those who have left the established church. They assumed the Dones either abandoned their faith or discounted the biblical concept of community. But many Dones responded that they are now more engaged than ever–in a more organic definition of church, the Body of Christ.
I continue to be struck by the number of pastors and other ministry leaders who now count themselves among the Dones. One wrote: “Yes, I am DONE! Now I am ministering outside the established church, healing, and at peace.”
1. “Why They Don’t Sing on Sunday Anymore.” This one topped them all–and continues to flourish. In this article I explained how, from the pew perspective, current practices are causing so many church attendees to refrain from singing. My perspectives ignited a storm of response, including from worship leaders and musicians who defended their status quo.
Last week I received a question from a worship pastor who honestly wondered what I would advocate for a more inviting worship atmosphere. Here’s what I shared with him:
- Eliminate the theater/spectator feel. Set up seating in the round, or in a U-shape–so the community of believers can see one another.
- Put the band/musicians out of sight sometimes. Help people visually focus on God or scripture or lyrics or images or one another–rather than on performers.
- Set musicians’ volume so that congregational singing is decidedly more pronounced than the performers’.
- Avoid sending the message that worship means music–only. Start by refraining from always asking the congregation to stand during music sets.
- For at least some of the songs, invite whomever would like to step forward and help lead the congregation in song. The more the merrier, especially children.
It’s been a stimulating year in the Holy Soup world. Thanks for reading–and commenting. Keep it up. We’re all enriched by the conversation as we strive to BE the church in these turbulent times.
Indeed, we live in turbulent times. Although I continue attending Church, I feel something it me hit the “done” stage. Maybe it’s the 2,000 year longing and we are weary of the long travel… We can’t see the star that guides us, that we don’t hear the angels singing. This little light of mine can’t grow dim.
Excellent! Thanks for this!
Stephen Smith
Sent from my iPhone
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“Why They Don’t Sing on Sunday Anymore.”
I have been following your blog since seeing the movie “When God Left the Building”. Each and every one of your posts resonates with me, but especially the one about singing.
I come from the perspective of someone involved in music ministry my entire life with my background being in the Pentecostal/Charismatic setting.
I guess you could say I have seen it all, including more liturgical Protestant traditions.
I heartily agree with your perspective on this matter. The performance mentality has literally taken the worship of God and held it captive in it pride-filled grip.
I see some insidious things at work. The insidious things are not perpetrated knowingly by the person involved, but rather the enemy of our souls has blinded eyes to see the truth that a majority of contemporary worship ministry is filled with pride.
“Look at us”
“Listen to us, we do it better than you anyway”
“Don’t tell us how to do it, we are professionals at this”
“Don’t suggest that it is too loud, this is the way the current generation expects it”
“Don’t drag us back into the past, there was nothing of merit in that”
One of the key characteristics of a spirit of pride is being unteachable. I operate under the principle that I can learn something from everyone. I have God’s Spirit living in me and I am able to discern between right and wrong, but I need to hear what everyone has to say.
I am greatly troubled because it seems that we are headed in the totally wrong direction and anyone who recognizes it is labeled as being old-fashioned and stodgy.
As an erstwhile church musician and kinda on the done side for awhile, I agree with you. I just got tired of the preformance. I really miss the good old four-part block harmonies where everyone in the congregation feels comfortable belting it out in melody or harmony, depending on their range, and now feeling like they fell off the earth. People who live in a chaotic world sometimes find great comfort in predictable. As for being done, I’ll call it a hiatus. I’ll be back, once I figure out how to help stop the insanity.
Dones cannot be peasants, yet many cannot think “church” without visualizing rows and rows of compliant “laypeople.” Some clergy cannot deal with healthy, grown-up Christians, although many long to serve with them. Congregations can be subtly discouraging to their most adventurous members, although many do seek something new. Dones may just be more sensitive to these and other nuisances, but it looks as though they are the first sign of a more basic problem– the “mass of the faithful” sense no reason to be a mass at all. Discussions about what kind of masses they should be are analogous to Kodak’s discussions about what kind of camera would recapture the public’s imagination.
Thank you so much for helping me feel that I’ve not lost my mind. I have loved good music of all kinds, in and out of church, for over 60 years. Amplified does not always equal good. God created us with the ability to make a joyful noise. Let us turn down the volume so that we can hear ourselves sing. Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation.
When active in a pastoral church mode, I had the ‘blessing’ of non-pew seating and could arrange the sanctuary seating is various combinations, often setting up the the Israelites-like in a four sided ‘square’ circle, especially on communion Sundays so all could ‘sit at the table.’ Especially remember a Sunday when two mothers who had just had their children die in a house fire the day before, sat with us. All could see them and they could see whole congregation as we worshipped and cared and prayed.
It was also great for smaller funerals as the number could be adjusted to look ‘full’ and people could see others.
Sadly, when I moved on, the new minister took out the chairs and set up solid pews. (Great for watching a movie) Now he could have an audience looking at him and listening.
Hmm, now to see if the church will put in some jumbo HD screens. Oh, one more thought, maybe a bankrupt stadium or hockey arena is available for sale.
Well said!
Your article here is very interesting. It seems to me that what is happening is that people are wanting to return to a model which is similar to what Worship was immediately after Christ’s return. Small groups met in homes, often the homes of wealthy women, and prayed, sang, and heard the Word preached so that the participants could go out and serve others with the Good News of the Gospel. I believe that if we met in smaller Church buildings, and had the mentality of spreading the Word as participants in that process, that it would revolutionize our Christianity. The problem is that we want to go to extremes, either as a person who sits back and watches the big show, or else as a social worker who serves the community with our Christianity being a quiet backdrop to our work. As Pastors, we have forgotten that we are to be shepherds, and not CEOs!!! We need to be accessible to those who need us, and not someone who has 9 to 5 hours with appointments in an office with our congregation. I don’t read anywhere in the Bible where Christ used a CEO model. In fact, at one point His earthly family tried to pull Him away from His ministry because He and His disciples didn’t have time to sleep or eat. Mark 3:20-21 in the NLT says: “One time Jesus entered a house, and the crowds began to gather again. Soon he and his disciples couldn’t even find time to eat. When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away.’He’s out of his mind,’ they said.” Jesus rebuked his family’s ideas in verses 31-35. So as Pastors we must ask ourselves what has Christ called us to do. And as a congregation, we must ask ourselves if we are truly willing to serve as Christ asked us to, or are we always looking for some new gimmick? I’m likewise disturbed by current house church models where liturgy is making a Protestant comeback. While the “bells and smells,” as some call it, may be an appealing experience, I see it as just another way to avoid getting our hands and feet dirty doing the work of God. The early Christians often died for their beliefs. Today there are many Christians in overseas countries who are likewise paying that price. Are we truly willing to die for the Gospel should we be found in that type of situation? Or would we rationalize that it’s OK to lie about being Christian so that we could escape with our lives? Very heavy thoughts which we need to seriously pray about and act upon.
Check out the T4T organic church planting movement that is exploding in Asia. Some in the US are experimenting with the model as well.
Amen, Pastor Lesko.
Praise the Lord… For all the comments. I just want to say what just happen to me in the last 6 months. I started an Outreach Ministry in the Park, approx. 6 months ago. I started with just myself. the Church told me not to startup the ministry, due to it would not work and other legal issues. I told them God has placed it on my heart to reach out to the community and start Missional Community in the park. and to God the praise God has given the growth with a thriving 50-60 people who attend and here the word of God and we worship together with a fellowship breakfast. With the Elders and the Pastor demanding me not to start it because they said there is no way it would work. For all types of reasons, some I already explained and couple more to we tried it and it did not work, or who are you to startup a outreach ministry( who are not a leader so what authority do you have to startup the Outreach Ministry. Well for one thing the church. does not believe in the 5-fold ministry stated in Eph. 4:11. and to Yes I am a Fully Ordained Minister with fully Licensed to plant churches, funerals etc. in which I have performed and have done several seminars such as the Three Baptisms, Radical Grace, How to walk in the Spirit. I Completed my Degree from Open Bible College and currently furthering my degree studies in Doctorate in Divinity. So yes I do have the Credentials to startup any Outreach Ministry in the Local church that I have been a member for 20 years. But today the Church board voted to kick me out of the Outreach Ministry that I started up. Due to the Church did not like me being in a position as a leader with a ministry that is growing and thriving with people coming to the Lord. The leaders in the Church said and quote and are not a leader in the church and we do not see you as one. because you have not been voted in as Elder or on the board I since a little of Jealousy or Envy in the Leadership position. I have always been on good turns with the staff and pastor. Now the Pastor will not talk to me. He just says Don’t speak to me. If you want to discuss something with me you have to go through one of our Elders. As I see it the Leadership team do not have the experience nor the training to deal with the Outreach Ministry . Such Ministries need to be in place such as Grieve Care, Teens care ,Addictions , and Lay Pastorial training. The Board and all the leaders believe the only person that is qualified to teach such training is the Pastor and the Pastor alone. Everyone else is not qualified so I am also banned to teach members on leadership training. So there you have it. The leaders did not have enough faith to get behind me in the beginning with the Missional Community in the Park. But now that the ministry has grown now the leaders and the Pastor want to run it and give it to someone else. and Possible to a Pastor in the Conference. So that the Church and the Pastor look good with the quota. It’s amazing the Church leaders have stooped so low as to Covent the Ministry the Lord told me to start. Please pray for me and the ministry.
Pastor Ray
Pastor Ray. Kudos to you for obeying the prompting of the spirit. Take your passion and your giftings on down the road and keep using them to advance His kingdom. Don’t let some jealous group of people building a kingdom for themselves discourage you! They aren’t the ones that get to say “Well done good and faithful servant.” Do not grow weary in well doing brother. Blessings on you.
Thanks for the post. I agree with everything you say, in particular the first and third points. Worship is not entertainment, although if the entertainment is limited, worship can be focused with it. One of my pet peeves: Singers whose voices are the point, not the worship and the words of worship. As far as singing not being the only form of worship, that terrifies many people. We all seek to fill silence with sound these days. I think that may be why worship leaves so little time for actual connection with God.
As to the first point, every church I’ve attended, or watched on tv, or been involved in, states that their mission is to seek and save the lost, and build up Christians. Why that is not a real emphasis in their actual activities is beyond me. Part of the problem is that we fight everyone. We fight the liberals (if you’re a member of a conservative church); we fight the social gospel people; we fight the gays. We fight the atheists.
It is not our job to fight people. It is our job to evangelize people. We have to get beyond the anger at folks that differ from us, and minister to them.
I think that one of the reasons we focus on the homeless so much is that they can’t tell us “no,” since we feed them.
Folks say, “Jesus ministered to the poor and homeless,” disregarding the simple fact that Jesus’ ministry was to everyone, regardless of status, if that person would hear Him. I come from an era where everything was already decided. We are now in an era which is in flux, and we have to learn that ministry opportunities are actually greater now, since there is so much social instability. These instabilities give rise to an opportunity that is probably unparallelled in recent history.
As a done who feels like an orphan and who does not sing, I mourn and grieve my wayward church.
Why doesn’t anyone as sing anymore
Agree with your suggestions except the last one. I think that would be a shambles except for children.
It has been brought about by copyright laws. In the 1970’s everybody knew the same songs centered around the Lord. Now every stream has there own songs centred around me or I. The songs are produced for profit and are secular inspired and hard to sing
My son commented about the “worship service” at his mega church, that it was really a “Standing Contest” to see who could stand up the longest!
Thanks for staying with these conversations Thom. As we now walk with out many of the denominational guards down, we must learn to have healthy conversations… for our sake and the sake of our neighbors!
Well I’ve enjoyed all the topics posted here and looking forward for more. Don’t stop.
Thom,
I am encouraged by these comments. I pray you are reaching folks.
“Why They Don’t Sing on Sunday Anymore.”
I once attended a church that had what I called ‘linear’ worship. There were no announcements (there were slides beforehand). We started with a scripture reading or responsive reading that set the tone for worship. And the cool part was that you already figured out ‘the point’. The first song was introduced and it made perfect sense why that song was chosen (and there was NEVER a “Let’s learn a new song”). We could even hear the congregation singing.
That followed with a transition that introduced the next song that again made perfect sense at reinforcing the point. This continued to the message that, you guessed it, elaborated the point. Even the closing song solidified the point. Every component built on the previous one. To me this was the best attempt I’ve seen in using the theater style of church.
Unfortunately they now have a new building with ALL the bells and whistles and is totally theater performance with everything you suggest not to do.
“The Rise of the Dones”
The questions I often ask of someone trapped in the church building 1 hour a week:
What would do if you lost the building and staff?
Would you still meet and if so, where?
Would you still have the same mission and if so, how would you accomplish that mission?
Pastor Lesko’s comments get to the heart of the matter.
As you can probably tell, I’m a ‘Done’ after many years of complete involvement in the institutional church. We meet in each other’s home, edify the body, serve our neighbors and each other…and never look back. God IS Good!
Any ideas for a next step for those who are “Done?” I am done with the status quo church and looking to help others in the same situation.
Kim, different dones are differently done. Some want spontaneous, relational body life without institutional rigamarole; I’ve met with a bible study of dones that has been contentedly together for about 20 years. Others have outgrown the role of “layperson” without growing into any more meaningful role that is recognized in their church. These dones are not anticlerical or antidemocratic, but they recognize that clergy and councils, just by being there, limit what they can hope to do or be. Some women are done, not with men, but with the ego-protecting stuckness of much male leadership, just as some men are done, not with women, but with feminizing churches where men with male thoughts and feelings never fit in. Fairness aside, these dones feel distant from consensus that seems false to the heart.
Perversely, the “logical” steps for “solving problems” often raise rigamarole and clericalism to radicalizing new heights. Ryan’s example of a congregation with music balanced to annoy everybody and attract nobody sounds like just such problem-solving. One can see how that seems like perfectly reasonable compromise to those who have an overwhelming desire for institutional survival. However, although many are not quite sure what the Body of Christ is, they are very sure that it is not an institution and that they are not peasants.
Blessings on your search!
“Many church leaders today seem to believe that Sunday production quality trumps everything else, including addressing people’s longing for a relational approach to spiritual growth.” So true, and I feel just having the “longing” has already put the people ahead of the leadership in Spiritual growth and it’s something that leadership cannot come to terms with. By a supposed default “leadership” means to them, to be more advanced spiritual than the people they are leading.
I had gone to a Christian Reformed church and the Sunday production was partially what was always done and something the worship leader was doing. I was setting up the on screen songs and sermon notes. I would also put a prelude splash screen picture that would go with the sermon topic. The pastor just shows up and does his parts. The Christian Reformed church is a counsel governed church and the pastor is just a hired paid servant. The biggest headache of the pastor there at the time was music… hymns vs praise songs. They were trying to satisfy two crowds and people would count the amount of old hymns to the newer praise songs and complain if it wasn’t exactly even. They wanted to appeal the younger crowd because the older counsel people wanted more people to come. It was noticeable that most the teens when they graduated would go off to college and not come back…disappear. Often new people would come for a while but not stay. The church founders were getting old and dying off and their children who didn’t build the church just didn’t have the passion of their parents. Things were changing to more contemporary but it was very slow. They had the hardest time getting rid of an old organ they weren’t using any more because one of the old ladies who paid for it was still going to church there. Adding a drum set was an issue for a while. Churches can be complicated places. As a ‘done’ it’s still nice not to have to deal with it all any more.
Has anyone been to a concert recently? The audience sings right along with the star.
Another thought, there are church musicians – they add to the services and ministry, and the are musicians in the church – they are there to have their talents celebrated. Which are you?
Personally, George, I have spent many happy hours in 8am Sunday and 6 pm midweek services with no music whatsoever. I love music as everyone does– I go to some concerts– but it tends to dilute or slow down transactional worship. And, at this cultural moment, both the choirs and the praise bandits bring social baggage that is not relevant to being the Body. Someday performancelessness will be a “disruptive innovation” (Clay Christensen).
https://hbr.org/2013/03/big-bang-disruption/
Is the CCLI, the reason for the lack of hymns being used in worship services? I have been reading of the lawsuits against the Catholic Churches in the 70’s and 80’s and how CCLI came to be.
I figure, that possibly churches have to pony up more money if they do different songs/hymns for the time period allotted to them, which may explain the repeating of songs, in worship services.
I am a musician in our fellowship, and whenever I suggest a Hymn for a service, I usually get “the look”, like I said something evil.
our church purchases a special licence and then pays royalties on all music used in services. Therefore more photo copying for Jesus to save money.
Roy, you may have a point. Is the church too ‘cost effective’ =cheep to pony up the FEE?
Used to sing in a choir that often used paraphrases of secular songs or songs needed royalties. They wouldn’t pay and churches had to edit out performances on their service CDs to avoid being sued. Even singing Happy Birthday to Jesus at Christmas could be wrong.
No more photo copying in the Lord’s work.
Yes,” Happy Birthday” will cost you. LOL That’s why your Applebees type restaurants, sing some off-the-wall version. Years ago, our worship leader(who wasn’t technically on the church’s payroll- another observation) would break into just about any song, hymn, during the service. Not so today. Even the pre service music is the same each week.
Is this becoming “of the world” ? We cannot have worship music unless it’s professionally approved, and “any broadcast, reproduction without the express written consent, of the National Football League, is prohibited”?
Touchdown! Check out ‘CHRISTIAN’ musicians and Royalties. Did Andre Crouch copyright his stuff? I used to DJ commercial radio and we HAD to keep track of what and who was played or lose our licence
Something has changed in the church service, musically, over the past 20 years. If I was to guess, it would be something to do with CCLI, copyrights. Worship services were more spontaneous, years ago. Now, it seems that they are afraid to deviate from the norm.
I remember back when I was going to church that someone mentioned they had to write down every thing they sung and had to send it in. I’m not sure if this included songs sung out of the hymnals or just the worship songs projected up on the screen. I don’t think a church has to pay for a copyright license when they have a books for everyone to sing from being everyone is singing out of a paid for copy. I don’t think churches are required to send in songs sung out of those. I’ve never heard mention of this in my Mom’s old little church where they only sing hymns out of hymnals. The last church I went to obviously had a license to copy since they did… I did… tape and make cd’s of the whole service for shut-ins. They also needed the copyright license being they use the NIV.
The OLD hymns are usually public domain and not subject to copyright laws. Now new arrangements of them (choir arrangements, instrumental, etc) are subject to copyright laws. Churches purchase a CCLI license, pay an annual fee and send in a lists of what was photocopied, copied for the large screens, or broadcast over tv or radio or put on any CD’s etc. At least that was the way it worked about 10 years ago when I was still a church choir director. For the record, I am a “done”. Spent over 30 years in church music and youth ministry.
Maybe that’s what happened to the spontaneity, in worship: They would have to edit “the list”, if something different happened in church;)
Thanks for your info. I have no problem with new music(at one time the OLD hymns were new, and many times, not accepted either), but for the last 15 or so years, they have dumped nearly all of the old, public domain hymns, and I get “the look”, followed by silence, and a subject change, if they are mentioned.
Like I posted earlier, there was a lawsuit, against the Archdiocese of Chicago, by a music publisher, back in the 80’s, which is where CCLI came into play.
I could see, if you are charging admission, and the performers, are making a living from the performance(al la Sandi Patti) itself. But isn’t a Church non-profit? I know that a lot of us(me included) complain about “either/or” CCM, or Hymns, instead of “both/and”. There has always been new music introduced over the years. But perhaps it isn’t so much a choice of the Music Minister, but a legal issue. I don’t know, maybe someone in the know, can clear that up.
First, it is difficult to correct your posts with auto correct on. But it makes your efforts suspect, do you really have a college degree?
If you want to work within a denomination get somebody on your side. Your congregation would be as upset as you if a stranger takes over. God has given you talents, use them.
To George Bush, Is your question towards me. If so, let me state yes I do have a college degree in Bachelors Church Ministry and a Masters in Pastoral Ministry. Currently working on my Doctor in Divinity. Fully Ordained and Licenses Minister. Have planted1 church and conducted couple funerals, ceremonies, counseling classes, seminars, etc.
I don’t know what you are trying to say with the regards of me having auto correction on. I am not an IT expert, blame the Holy Soap developer.
Last not understanding you comment with –
If you want to work within a denomination get somebody on your side. Your congregation would be as upset as you if a stranger takes over. God has given you talents, use them.
First, your comments with – Your congregation would be as upset as you if a stranger takes over. Here is my comment on this –
insecurity!!! Anytime you hear someone stating this type of comment. What he/she is saying- I’m insecure about myself and I want to be a controller. And that person fear is- they well not be able to have the power to control others. Such people may be codependent. Freedom only comes through letting go or surrendering to the Lord and let God handle your life. That is God’s Greatest desire to make his people see the power is in Him and not in our ability.
Pastor Ray
As a long-time worship leader, Christian songwriter and musician, and short-time “doner” – I so appreciate what Thom has to say here. It has become more about acceptance of the MINDSET that worship is a music performance we listen to, rather than an effort to reach out and let your burdens fall away as you seek Him for a few short minutes. Worship has become a social experience, where a group of individuals worship in a room full of people – sometimes feeling totally alone – instead of a powerful, intimate communion between the Bride of Christ and the Bridegroom. Due in large part to social media, people are more aware than ever of who is watching them and in worship they seem to miss the part of God’s love that causes our heart to beat faster in our chest, and causes us to sing out boldly to the only worthy God there is. If you want to see the change – be the change! Sing it out – as one part of the whole – for Jesus’ sake!
OMG!!! Thank You Father….I decided last night that I can’t do this anymore. My exact words were, ” I’m Done”. I just want help lead people to the Heavenly Father in this last hour. Not sit in a pew stuck in this religious system. I don’t want to be in nobody’s pulpit or on TV, nor do I need to be before thousands trying to make a name for myself. I just want to see my brothers and sisters saved so we can ALL make it to Heaven.