They’re done. Done with the institutional church. They are millions strong. And millions more are about to join them.
The Dones, as I refer to them, include some of the established church’s previously most active members, best givers, and most mature believers. Their exodus presents one of the most perplexing challenges for the church as we know it.
In their new book, sociologists Josh Packard and Ashleigh Hope compare the Dones to refugees. They write, “Refugees are people who’ve been forced from their homes–for fear of persecution. That describes the dechurched. If they stayed, they would risk further estrangement from their spiritual selves, from God, and from a religion they still believe in.”
That’s what’s interesting about the Dones. They’re not running away from God. Many of them say they’re now running better toward God. So, why is that? What is driving them away from the institutional church? The sociologists discovered several recurring themes after interviewing the Dones.
The fouling of community
The research reveals that the Dones craved the sense of community that a congregation could provide. But instead of community they found judgment. The authors describe Elizabeth who longed for community. But she said, “Today things are so divided and judgmental, especially around superficial issues, that I can’t go into a church and pretend anymore to be someone I’m not.”
Packard and Hope said the Dones were looking for the kind of community that demonstrates “a shared understanding that we’re all broken and in need of forgiveness and grace.” Instead they found church leaders and members “making lifestyle declarations and judgments without owning up to their own shortcomings.”
It’s not a shirking of conviction. They’re comfortable seeing God as judge. But they resist church people who attempt to act in that capacity.
Some church people have judged the Dones as guilty of “forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,” as mentioned in Hebrews 10:25. But many Dones say they’re not forsaking assembling. They’re just not assembling in that place with the steeple on top. They’re getting together organically with others to share their faith journey. One described a weekly mealtime with fellow believers: “A bunch of people coming together around a common meal to talk about life. It’s nothing like church. We all talk, and we all listen.”
I’ve found that Dones often bristle when someone says they left the church. “We didn’t leave the church. We are the church,” they say. “The church is not some branded religious bureaucracy in some building. It’s us, all of us. We are the Body of Christ–the church.”
This community/judgment tension is just one of the factors that the sociologists learned about the Dones. In future articles I’ll describe some of their other findings. In the meantime, check out their book, Church Refugees.
There’s a lot more to learn. The organized church, if it wants to retain some of its prime people, would do well to listen to them.
Imho, absolutely superbly put! From a fellow-refugee gathering organically with other refugees, endeavouring by grace to advance the Kingdom by being and doing…
I am a longtime Christian Educator in a United Methodist Church. I grew up going to church and having it be the center of my life. While I agree with so much of what you are saying I can never see myself leaving the church. I completely agree that people in the church can be the most judgmental of others without realizing that they are doing so and to be honest at times when they do realize it. We are all guilty of this. On the other hand being human is a human condition that will also find its way into any organized group of people even the Dones. It is true that the church today needs to take a serious look at how we are doing things. We need to come to the table with open discussion about how we can best meet the needs of everyone in our church and community so Christ’ Church however we recognize it will share Christ’ love and forgiveness to all persons. May God bless all persons seeking to follow and serve Him.
I am thankful for the clarification you give here, because the Bible never talks of any one who is following Jesus but is detached from His Church. However, just because you aren’t meeting in an established building with an established denomination with a traditional service-layout, that doesn’t mean that you can’t be meeting in a “local church” (even if it looks nothing like what most churches look like). I am the pastor in a small town and we are looking at planting a church in a neighbouring community. We are planning on doing something that will look quite different from the traditional church model in order to reach people who have not interest in going to a traditional church.
Is”church” in the Bible a reference to “body of Christ” or “congregations meeting in a building?
Just a thought that no one seems to really be saying… Have we ever considered that what is happening with the “Dones” might actually be a work of the Holy Spirit? Organized church today is nowhere closer to unity than it was 1,000 year ago. Most of the things that take place in a modern “church” are based on traditions of men rather than the pattern of Jesus. For once, believers are beginning to gather in homes and public places, sharing together in a Love Feast and fellowship that is led by the Spirit, and using spiritual gifts to minister to one another and reach out to the world. Denominations and divisions are not a factor among those in this movement. It sounds a lot like a return to New Testament expression of faith and worship to me.
Rather than being critical or frightened of those who leave, I think perhaps organized churches need to be prayerfully considering what they need to do. The goal should not be to “get those people back in here”, but “what have we missed that is causing these people to seek God elsewhere.”
@Debbie Smith….Very hard for Dones to be plagued by the “human condition” the way organizations are because organizations require assimilation. Dones think on a family level – the human condition effects the family level but in the end – you’re still family. The organization wants you to prop up and support the organization first. Dones view all Christians (including those in organizations) as part of the family of God. We may disagree but it’s OK. There are no fights concerning bylaws or other things. Most of the things that cause issues are tossed out by Dones, preferring to lead quite lives and tend to our own business.
The issue of having open dialog would be great, but when you come to the issue of “meeting the needs of the church community” most Dones that are in Christian fellowship (not church fellowship) will tell you that all of their needs are being met without having to join or assimilate into an organized group. You’re just born into it.
I currently have no issue having fellowship with other Christians. The only thing that draws me away is when that gradual assimilation thing rears its ugly head. If you can only accept someone that is like you – there’s a problem. Our common denominator is Christ. You, as a believer, are my sister. We may not agree on everything – but we are blood related. Why is it so difficult for others to see the beauty of this. Music is not composed of just a melody – but it includes harmony (at times dissident parts that may sound weird by themselves) but when placed with the central song – make up beautiful parts of a song that have a distinct melody (untiy) while recognizing that the harmony (diversity) is made up of different parts.
FYI – theres a devious name for Dones now (its funny that everything needs to have a classification – I though we were just Christians). People are now calling us “Subversive Christians”. smh! 🙁
People are just tired. They’re tired of the bureaucracy, the traditions that do not bring about righteousness or change in people’s lives, tired of walking a tightrope in the churches, tired of having to go elsewhere to hear the true gospel and how to apply it to the current issues of our day. I was one of the Done’s for nearly a year. I think its a catch-22, with the organic fellowships you still have issues because you’re dealing with other people, but there are some things that just are better able to be addressed through the institutional church, such as missions and programs to engage your children. The institutional church tends to be quite impersonal, especially if you don’t fit into a certain box.
Sometimes I believe the sheer size of the institutional church and the empire-building mindset is the problem. Other times I think its that we as western Christians are just complacent and nothing satisfies because we have everything too easy. Definitely want to take a look at Church Refugees!
I think that the comments so far have been very good. The work that Jesus started called the church by people is supposed to be a “spiritual dwelling” for all who have been saved. As Christians have developed, we have become more selfish and satisfied with the physical part of the church. We must make Jesus the center of our total life and encourage others to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
We can be ONE in Jesus and still not go to the same building to worship. Jesus command = LOVE ONE ANOTHER!!!!
And there you have it! Love (which is unconditional: and if it isn’t, it isn’t really love), is the ONLY teaching required. It is the Alpha and Omega of our reason for being. The kingdom of God is WITHIN us and it manifests as the still small voice.
This whole religion bit will be as easy or as complicated as you choose to make it. Sit. Relax. Breathe. Still your mind. Let go of your ego (be humble, surrender). Ask for guidance. Then honour that guidance – because it is tailored specifically for you. And why ask for guidance if you only reject it because it’s not what you wanted it to be?
You are unique – you have been given talents, abilities, interests and passions that are the vehicles through which you will express the love of Christ. You will never be happy trying to fit yourself into a mold of expectation required by others – and especially a church/religion that espouses the love of God
Words are cheap. Anyone can say anything. We reveal ourselves through what we do and say.
Cut yourselves some slack. Forgive yourself. We can’t truly forgive someone else until we learn to forgive ourself. How hard do you want to make this lifetime for yourself and others?
Just relax, breathe, be kind to yourself, follow your ❤ (God) and in time you will find your spiritual tribe.
Love and blessings
There is another aspect of being a “done” that also isn’t being talked about a whole lot. Many “dones” who have been very invested in the church their whole lives find that their work becomes frustrating. It always comes down to Who is the Head of the church? We naturally say that Jesus is the head of the church, yet no ministry gets done without the pastor’s or the ruling council’s OK.
Most “dones” by the time they leave their church know how to listen to the Holy Spirit; they recognize His urging and want to be guided by Him, so when they are being prompted to begin a ministry in a certain way, but the pastor says no, you can’t do it that way, here’s what I want you to do instead, well that is too much of a frustration. Obey the rulers of the local church or obey God? The “dones” choose to leave because they eventually conclude that the pastor and/or the council making decisions for that local church may not actually be following the lead of the Holy Spirit, because if they were, they would obviously have recognized that “dones'” call before he or she became a done.
Bill, you’re actually hitting on one of the other major reasons the Dones have fled. They do feel frustrated and disempowered from pursuing their ministry interests. Stay tuned; more on that to come.
Excellent post Pastor Bill. As a former institutional church pastor (16 years total), I understand. I gave people the liberty to do such. Frustration comes on our end when people (who like institutions), don’t want us to follow the Holy Spirit as well. I’ve been a “Done” for about 5 years now – and I still pastor/mentor people….I just do it without any overhead and organizational structure. At the end of the day – people must walk out what the Holy Spirit has told them to do. I now understand that Christ yoke is easy and his burden is light. It’s been the best 5 years of my life.
The institutional church has been a huge disappointment to me. The very first church (a non denominational church) my family really got connected into, my husband and I caught the leaders of our small group lying and manipulating another couple into coming to their life group meeting and missing a school function that they promised their young son that they would go to with him. They lied because attendance in their life group was so incredibly important to them and the son of this couple should “learn to put Jesus first,” as they put it to us when we confronted them privately about it. They also said this couple who was having marital issues needed to be at the meeting because it had to do with that sort of thing. Much to my surprise, the pastor who they ran to for confirmation that they were right agreed that manipulating and lying to this other couple was not wrong since it resulted in something good (the couple coming to the life group) and said “love is sneaky sometimes”. We told the couple involved what the life group leaders had done and they were very upset and left the life group. Of course we left that church because we disagreed with the pastor. Our deep friendship with the life group leaders was completely destroyed because of pride, bad advice from the pastor to not talk to us for a month until we agreed to meet with him as a mediator, and their stubborn, unrepentant hearts.
The second church we attended was an Assemblies of God church. This new church made us feel so loved at a time when we were hurting so badly from our last church. We were showered with hugs and love and prayer. We thought this was our church home. We served frequently in the nursery where there was a great need because many were unwilling to serve there. Over time, we were asked to become nursery directors after the previous ones had left the church. The position was an unpaid volunteer position. This position was a huge responsibility, but not knowing fully what we were getting ourselves into, we eagerly accepted what we thought was a huge honor. For six months we did not attend church because we were in the nursery every Sunday covering for people who didn’t show up and trying to do the jobs of ten people because we were so understaffed with volunteers. We were there earlier than many of the pastors every Sunday and left later than most people as well. One of us would also serve in the nursery on Wednesdays while the other one was able to go to service. When there was an extra service added, we were able to go to church one service. However, we then had to be there a total of six hours with our young kids to set up in the morning, wait for people who were late to show up, go to church, serve in Sunday school and then serve with the kids during second service, and then help clean up. We also spent (and still do) half of our Saturdays in an inner city ministry at the same church. All of the time we gave was a huge sacrifice for us. Not to mention we were tithing as well. We had a one year old and three year old at the time and my husband works fifty hour weeks. Our family and marriage and spiritual life was hurting because of it and we were thinking about stepping down because we could hardly continue on.
Then, suddenly, my husband fainted and busted open his head on a Friday night. To me, it looked like he was dying. He had a concussion and got many stitches in his scalp, and the doc at the hospital did a bunch of tests and couldn’t find what caused him to pass out. She said it could be his heart and further tests were needed. Worse comes to worst, he may need a heart transplant, she said. After a month of tests everything was fine, and it was just a fluke, unlikely to happen again, thank you Jesus. However, two days after he fell, while my husband was recovering at home and we were in the midst of everything, we were watching the service online. The pastor asked the congregation to pray for a lot of people but did not include my husband, even though I knew for a fact he knew about it. When I emailed him, assuming there must have been a misunderstanding somewhere, he said he didn’t have time to mention everybody, and there were six people in the hospital who he didn’t mention. So nobody besides the church staff was aware of what we were going through or could pray for us or encourage us through this time. By the way, this same pastor does a ten minute sermon about tithing to encourage people to give money every single Sunday. Well, through all this we felt not part of a family whatsoever and completely used.
Our feelings were confirmed when a different pastor of the same church’s wife, whom I was close friends with, had watched her children for free multiple times, had play dates with, and was there for her through a very difficult time said she could no longer be my friend. She said, through her husband, that she took it so personally that we were leaving the church, even after I explained over and over again it had nothing to do with her or her husband and everything to do with what was best for our family. She treated me like a despicable human being and still won’t even talk to me. It was then that I truly realized that I was just a tithing number to her, not a friend. Surprisingly, we are trying another church quite different from the first two because we desire fellowship with other believers. We will see how it goes. My heart breaks for the division I see in the American church. There is idolatry going on in the institutional churches, where to many people their church name or denomination is more important than Christ’s name. May Jesus unite all of His true children so we can effectively glorify His name.
Been there done that could write volumes. If you are not building up the church staff or serving them, then you are ostracized, shunned, and then gossiped about how you lost your faith and are deep in sin and rebellion. My heart bleeds for you because you served and then you were made to feel like dirt.
I am sorry you have had such a hard time. We had to leave our church when we found out they are hiding serious problems (child sex abuse). We have looked into numerous religions and are now at peace with bible study, prayer and communion in our own home with our family! We pray for peace for you and your family. Jesus said that his disciples would have love among themselves and as a family that is something we are striving for.
My heart goes out to you and your husband. John 17:20-26.
What a heartbreaking story. Pray you, and your family are stronger, and closer in Christ.❤🙏
I’m heading to 5 years done. A lot has changed in thinking with me and still does as time goes hear from the time prior to leaving to when I just said, “I have had enough! No more!”. I went through about 3 to 4 years of the possibility of return but the tipping point was last fall when I decided to try a men’s group. Nothing bad happened. Nobody there did anything wrong but after a few times of going, I could tell that group sort of thing and church just wasn’t going to happen any more. That was the tipping point of no return. As an introvert and not all that social, I just wasn’t clicking with anyone. It took a lot to get myself to show up to begin with. I just lack any desire for group activities and after working a forcefully highly social engineering job all week, I’m all talked out and need my alone time.
We have an NPO in Port Elizabeth, South Africa called Love Story which ministers predominantly to the less fortunate BUT we also run a Community on a Monday night that consists of between 30 -50 believers some “Dones” and a whole lot of people who are still active in their local denominational church or grouping, about 10 or more “churches” represented. The idea is to build up those that desire more than what they are getting and then that filters back into their “church”, most of whom are also involved in their own Communities or House Churches on another night of the week as well. We are not the “spiritually elite” in the city however we have some very passionate spiritually strong people that are taking ground for the Kingdom and enjoying doing it. The important factor is that we remain a united Bride of Christ and not look at all our differences because we are all made unique but rather put our differences aside and concentrate on what we agree on (Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour) . So if any of you are in this part of Africa and would like to get involved you are most welcome, whether you are Done or Undone 🙂
http://www.facebook.com/lovestorygoanddothesame
http://www.lovestory.org.za
(From time to time I feel the same as Ryan with the local church)
Gordon, I am a done (ex senior pastor) in Port Elizabeth and network with several others. We engage in ‘organic house churches,’ including the townships – by ‘house church’ we don’t mean a cell group of a larger congregation, but the kind of thing spawned in the NT and emerging all over the world, of which China would be the best example. I think it’s all about building community and mission. I like much of what you have written. I’m sure we share a common burden for our lovely but needy city.
Thanks Errol, the Lord has been very good to us. Love Story wants to build with the church in the City and not any particular group so feel free to join us on the City Square Monday to Friday for “City Feed” from about 17:40 onwards and get to know some our folk, I try to encourage people to come down at least once – it breaks a lot of religious mind-sets. We do church differently on the square – most are blessed by it 🙂
Thanks sincerely for the invite, Gordon. Unfortunately many years and painful personal experience have taught me (and many others) that you can’t change the institutional church from within, no matter how dedicated and enthusiastic the minority. The system tends to win in the end. But I like your positive attitude and concern for the city and praise God for that. We ourselves have our hands full ministering to the poor. God use us all to extend his kingdom in this part of the world!
Errol, it sounds as if we are both involved with the same type of work in the City, our Monday night Community is totally independent of the Church and our “Church on the Square” is the opposite of any institutionalised gathering I have ever come across. Stay strong and I trust that our paths will CROSS (pun) one day.
For sure!
I am a done with the institutionalized Church for several years now and will never go back. I have found that I could do so much more with my personal ministry within secular groups, food banks, youth programs, community volunteering, etc. than one could ever do in the Church setting.What I found is, God’s love and the Holy Spirit are not owned by the Church. The blessings have been astonishing.
Our home group leader visited the local police station and asked them if there was anything we could do for them. The Policeman was a bit nonplussed as he said “We have never been asked that before”
The church has been there for 200 years.
As a result we are investigating giving support to young offenders.
Wow…..I never realized how blessed I am in this rural church I am a part of. I hear people’s gripes and complaints and think on my church family. We aren’t perfect by no means but I praise God for where He has placed me! Our church family was full of busy work but not Godly work. Doing all the programs that no body attended but thought we should have. Haha. We stripped our meetings to Sunday Mornings only and God built us up from there. Someone would say, “we should do this”. Pastors response is, “do YOU feel God leading you into that ministry?” Rural church’s are in need of those willing to follow God and help the church’s stay current. We need to be able to meet ALL ages in their worship needs. Older generation has fond memories of their church days while young people are bringing in a new way of church. Every body’s experience is unique to them but when struggles come don’t be so quick to divorce yourself and take what you think is an easier or better way. If we don’t learn Gods lesson the first time, trust me He will bring it around again. Life in Christ is an adventure. What will you discover today?
Amen!
There are plenty of things and people I don’t like at my local church, but I am not going to abandon it or them. We need each other to grow…we are absolutely tied to one another and that includes being tied to folks who are not mature and who can be very carnal. The spiritual body of Christ which we would all agree is the “true church” has a physical structure that was modeled for us in the New Testament. The churches in the NT had elders whose primary task was to protect the flock as well as teaching the flock and administering all the spiritual and non-spiritual activities associated with a body of believers. The NT churches also had deacons who served the body, primarily the widows. And if someone was honored by God to be called to be a shepherd (pastor), then their responsibility was to help bring the saints (the body) to perfection (completion) until a unity of the faith was achieved. I don’t have a problem with authority, I don’t have a problem with the much hated structure of a vast majority of churches in America, and most of all I will not hesitate one minute to leave a congregation if I felt unloved or where I could not support a pastor and/or elders, BUT, I WOULDN’T GO OUT ON MY OWN APART FROM A LOCAL CHURCH BECAUSE THINGS GOT TOUGH. I WOULD EITHER START A GOOD CHURCH OR TRY MY HARDEST TO FIND A LOCAL CHURCH THAT WOULD LOVE ME. I think Paul gave us the model and even with all the problems he had with various churches back then, he never abandoned the model. It’s certainly a hot topic and very debatable and I may be in the minority on this forum, but we don’t need more churches, we need more good churches and those churches will run from the traditions that make void the Word of God and they will love people where they are. The church I attend is not there yet, but we are headed in that direction. I can’t help that the church is filled with idiots…I used to be an idiot, but I’m glad folks did not give up on me. The path of least resistance is not the right path in many many cases. It’s not meant for us to perfect ourselves. We need each other…now more than ever.
I’ve spent some considerable time listening to Josh talking about the new book. I find it so exciting that the two authors found that their original thoughts were not borne out by their research.
I remember reading Thom’s article ‘The Rise of the Dones’ in November. Others have been talking about what Josh has been saying. I walked away from a traditional Anglican church in the UK (I had been treasurer for 8 years) about 45 years ago. Some years later I became involved with an American Sabbath-keeping church for about 20 years. I really became part of what was then sometimes referred to as ‘the out of church Christians’ in 2003 and it was at that time that I found the book ‘So you don’t want to go to church anymore’ when the two authors (one of whom was Wayne Jacobsen) had only written the first three chapters. I have spent a couple of weekends with Wayne when he has been in the UK and find myself on a similar wavelength. I love the way in which the discussions between Josh and Wayne highlighted the way in which there are two very different but complementary ways of looking at what is going on.
The link to the podcasts (about 80 mins) will also provide access to more of Josh’s material and a seminar (60mins).
http://thegodjourney.com/2015/05/01/who-are-the-dones-484/
Leaving a church you are very connected to is absolutely not easy. It is hard on your entire family. It is hard on your kids who don’t get to see their friends on Sunday anymore, and it is hard on the parents seeing their kids having to deal with such a huge change. It puts huge strain on freindships you have in the church because most of them can’t understand why you are leaving when they see their church as the best church ever. Many times, you can’t even tell your friends why you have to leave or the things you’ve seen because that would be gossiping, so you willingly leave looking bad to other people. You show love to those you disagree with by keeping your mouth shut. Some friendships end abruptly with people you love deeply as brothers and sisters who outright reject you for leaving the church they idolize so much. Both of the churches I’ve left have been extremely growth and number and money driven, but extremely cleverly disguised as Christ-centered. Unfortunately, these churchres are awesome at loving new people ( got to grow those numbers), so it is so easy to be fooled by them and so many are. It isn’t until you really get to know the leaders that you see just how ugly their motives really are and you begin to see what an unloving church you have been a part of for so long. It is exhausting looking for a new church home and extremely extremely painful to leave any church. Both the times we have left a church, we have felt strongly that God was telling us to do so. We don’t know why we have had to go through all this, but we are hoping God is going to use our circumstances to help us love others better. I understand why people give up on the institutional church because I’ve experienced the incredible pain that comes with leaving a church. It is extremely hard to open yourself up to a new congregation, to make new friends who may in the end up fooling you and hurting you all over again, all while wearing and proclaiming the name of Christ because outwardly “good” Christians without a heart that really loves God or people are so skilled at doing that sort of thing. My family is trying a simple church. It does not have a concert every Sunday with thirty people singing in a choir, taking away servants from more important ministries, like the children’s ministry so it is extremely well staffed teaching the Gospel to the very young. The pastor goes through CHAPTERS of scripture every Sunday and uses less of his own words than I have ever seen in any church. They pray for EVERYONE who is sick or needs prayer with an email system that connects the whole church body. Still, I am scared. Sometimes it takes years to really see the hearts and motives of a church, and its so hard to trust and love again when you’ve been betrayed and hurt and used so many times by so many different people. Home Bible studies seem like a great solution, and I agree 100% that the believers who gather together in a home or wherever are still part of the true Church, the one where Christ is truly Lord.
The church we are attending is non-denominational, but affiliated with Calvary Chapel, by the way.
Time and intense study should be invested to see who is the head of every local church. Also see the acts of the Apostles as the were busy building churches. Some 150 for Paul alone. “You cannot by-pass the local the church and be right with God.” It is the pillar and ground of the truth. ie. Truth headquarters, soul-winning headquarters, heavenly hospital, etc. Perhaps you have been a part of a church that did not take the great commission seriously, and for this I can see how one could be alienated. The marching orders of the church, is to “GO YE” When we are not going with the mandate of spreading the gospel, we get critical, mean spirited, and we fastly becoming busy-bodies, instead busying ourselves with the last will and testament that our Lord entrusted only local churches with. Blessings, Bro. J. Stephen Crane
Thank you, it is very true that we have not known exactly what to look for in a church. I grew up Catholic… The problem we usually got ourselves into is we were taking churches at face value. They say their motto is “love God, love people, love sharing God with people.” But their actions say a different thing. Instead of equipping you to disciple others, they preach to you to bring guests to THEIR church so they can hear the pastor and be saved there (and grow their church). They needed more money to deck out their campus. Their reason: so more people can be drawn in (and be saved of course). Everything is disguised. So many people we highly respect are still going to the church because they are completely fooled. We pray for them. God is teaching us a lot, like not everybody who says he or she is a Christian is a Christian, and also warning signs in churches to look out for. The heartbreaking thing is there are probably more messed up churches out there than good ones.
Thanks for sharing this, Stephen. I think you are right on.
And I think we just have to ask ourselves what’s in people’s hearts. So often it’s not that people are trying to grow the church for their own selfish aims–they are just doing the best they can at what they’ve been led to believe and mistakenly believe we are called to do. (i.e. grow the organization–not the Kingdom of God)
God gives us grace…not for anything we did or ever can do. We must show that same grace if his kingdom is to come on earth.
God’s blessings on all on this message board. 🙂
Dare I say it, but could we add this to the scriptures?
We are getting ready to leave our church. Our middle schooler is not connected with anyone there and says he does not believe in God. We are not Done but will look for a smaller church where we can worship and serve as a family rather than being divided into age-level ministries. Both my husband and I have served as church staff members in the past and are completely burned out on the politics.
I’m A Done and didn’t know it. Absolutely a good article a few puzzling thoughts and questions. But on a whole right. We are the church each of us said Christian is part of the body of Christ that is the Church. Not some big huge edifice of a place. Although the church the temple or sanctuary buildings following the guidelines and footsteps of the Old Testament , God The Great I AM worshippers is part of God plan for us to come together and fellowship. But when that fellowship begins to click and judge become judgemental and making rules about who or what can enter these structures and worship. There is no law that says you have to worship under that structure. So you Find an accepting body of the church and fellowship freely without being smoke and mirrors and something you know in your heart your not. I feel it would possibly even be to your own benefit to worship alone . Because ultimately it comes down to you and God. A one on one.
WOW – really amazing insights. It would be great if some of the Pastors would weigh in on this debate and tell us what their take on this is. My guess is most pastors dismiss this as sour grapes and do not take it seriously. Most seem to feel if someone leaves – no worry – someone else will come along and fill your seat.
I read these comments and see the individual stories of people and how they view “church.” Those who see church as the place to go and need to rally around; the place where you can lose identity if you abandon her; the local assembly that you should not forsake, these people hang onto their sense of belonging–their language indicates that their emphasis is membership and belonging. Those who see church as a collaboration of like minded servants wanting to invest themselves into making a difference, equipping and being equipped to reach beyond their own spot in the pew–their language indicates that their emphasis is meaningful service and relationships with Christians who also seek to serve. There are those who enjoy receiving the teaching and they do not understand the heart of the ones who want to BE what is taught. And there are those who are so antsy to please their Lord and put into action their part of the “plan” that they cannon understand why anyone would be so content with their spot in the pew.
Excellent observation Brother Bill.
Since so many seem to be “done with church” perhaps we should stop using that word. Here are some alternative names for church that might help reach the dones. https://stevesimms.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/god-gatherings/
Steve, not sure the dones need (want) ‘reaching’… They are also the body of Christ.
Yes I agree Errollmulder, I think you really hit the nail on the head. There is a mindset that will not change out there, simply because “this is always the way we did it.” It reminds me much of the field of medicine. I have spoken to people who have come back from fighting the ebola outbreak in west Africa and they said fighting superstitions/fundamentalist beliefs among the sick was a much greater battle than the disease itself. People washed the bodies of the dead in water and then used that water in rituals that infected themselves. They viewed western medicine as evil. The western Church continues to do the things that keep itself sick and full of disease. The mindset is the same, to view the cure as something to be avoided. The dones have dropped the superstitions and have cured or are curing themselves through the Holy Spirit and the love of Jesus.
Want to mention a verse in the Bible. Hebrews 10 v 25, “And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near”. (NLT)
The Dones just need to make sure they are not on their own. The Bible tell us this.
There is definitely too much tradition in churches. We need to be looking at our generation and how we can do things differently. Some of the other articles in this site have some great thoughts which could help some of the Dones maybe.
Most of all we need to be showing love to our church people and those who are not. Maybe then people won’t be DONE with church.
The true church is where his people are gathered together in his name. It doesn’t need a dedicated building for this to happen; it doesn’t need a dedicated clergy for this to happen; it does not need a programme for this to happen.
All it needs is for people to submit themselves to the leadership of the Holy Spirit who is the best leader in the world. To submit themselves to the authority of Jesus who has ALL authority. And to acknowledge that God is God and doing what comes naturally or should that be supernaturally and that is causing men and women to abandon foolish self righteousness and replace it with the righteousness of Christ.
That is the holy trinity at work and nothing you or I can do can add to that as hard as we try to.
Don’t be so fast in denning what the Bible says in Hebrews 10:25! God is telling us to meet together for fellowship, prayers, communion and the apostles teaching (Acts 2:42). The “church” building does not have to be the center of the meeting, but it is a place to gather together as ONE BODY in Jesus Christ.
Your response is full of concern and is appreciated. You must know, however, that this verse is proof-texted at almost every believing family that leaves a church. It is shared almost as a threat to keep people in line.
There are things that this verse does not say. For instance, it makes no mention of a Sunday “Worship Service” or a Wednesday night prayer meeting. You must read a great deal into the text to come up with what we call “Church Membership” today.
What it does say is Christians should be doing things in such a way as they encourage one another to live out their faith. Millions of Christians hang on in churches week after week because of this verse and others, but continually find themselves discouraged rather than encouraged. When they leave, they are looked at as unspiritual and spoken of with great concern. Maybe we should find out what is causing this and be more concerned before it takes place.
That particular verse should be taken in its context. You must first address why the Hebrew writer penned this letter. They were undergoing extreme persecution. It was an issue of …you must go to church at this place every week…per say. It was more of get together and encourage one another.
Gathering for encouragement in that day and time was basically a physical thing…you had to meet each other physically. There was no phone, no FaceTime, no Skype. Today we can assemble with each other and not move out of our homes. I assemble with believers several times a week – but sometimes there are only 2 of us…numbers don’t matter. People think that this can only happen in a designated place called “church” but whenever believers gather – the Church has assembled. I think we tend to have a very myopic view of the Church, generally reducing it to my particular group (denomination or local assembly) – never taking into account that there are believers that don’t go to your assembly – but they are part of His Church.
We tend to want and recruit others to belong to our group or faction – when God is saying….My Church (singular). No true Christian is “on their own”, and I believe that no true Christian wants to be. However “Dones” no longer look for assimilation – we are happy being who God made us to be. Can local assemblies welcome “Dones” without trying to assimilate or institutionalize them? I think that’s one of the biggest questions. Churches and pastors have told people to just “live by faith”, I think the chicken has come home to roost….live by faith and watch God work this out His way.
That should read it wasn’t an issue of you must go to church at this place every week
[…] with Church, but Not with God” (found here). It is part of an ongoing discussion about “Dones” (not to be confused with […]
I see the points here. And, yes, definitely it doesn’t mean a church building etc, but just that you need others in the body to function. It’s so sad that people feel the need to be DONE with church. We all need love and encouragement and a lot of people lead such busy lives doing good things that we don’t notice how people are going. Perhaps the New Testament church was the right thing, Sharing in fellowship and spending time together. Just need to find the time…
I think there is another group of “The Dones”.. It’s the group of people who have seen the Church turn into a circus.. Flying trapeze artists hanging from the ceiling, pastors riding bulls in the sanctuary, billboards with people under the sheets for the church’s talk about sexuality, new converts thrown into places of service without any discipleship…is it no wonder people who actually read God’s word and try to obey it are FLEEING…….numbers filling the sanctuary…or auditorium as they like to call it…or CAMPUS….all of the thousands of people there mean nothing if they do not want to live like Christ and be His disciple. Take up your cross, turn the other cheek, repent …how about those ideas? I read where 80% of the Body of Christ is sleeping around….uh…H E L L O……..you are fornicating or being an adulterer….is that a disciple…no…now I’ll be called judgmental but some of the Dones are exiting the Church because it is a lukewarm, sinful mess….where is the blazing fire of the Holy Spirit clearing the dross out of our lives? Don’t even get me started on the denominations that are embracing all things gay, homosexual, transgendered……etc. UM…H E L L O…….America has become Sodom and it still does not satisfy the lust of all things bizarre. when you have boys joining the girl scouts because they feel like a girl, riots in cities with lawlessness run amok, thieves and lawyers ruling the day, and men in the pulpits who are not even true believers as the reality of their secret lives are unveiled, and no one seems to even open their Bible to see what GOD HAS TO SAY…..you have people who say “I’m done”……the only Hope for this Nation and World is the TRUTH OF JESUS…so they open the Bible themselves and let the SPirit of God disciple them…and they find community with other believers who have come out of the circus church. the community is in homes, on-line…but it is ALWAYS centered around the TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD.
Well done Tamela! I agree 100%.
AMEN! It is arrogant for man to think he can do things his own way and expect God to bless it. The reality of God’s word is, expect discipline and thank God He does discipline us, He disciplines His true children because He loves them and is faithful to complete the work He started in them. It’s all by God’s Grace, not mans ways. Do the Pastors of these churches ever consider it may be God himself leading His people out of bondage, so they can GROW. Most “institutionalized” churches aren’t equipping the saints of God, in a lot of cases they are heaping on heavy burdens that God never intended His people to carry (just as the Pharisees did in Jesus day). Our nation has tons of these types of churches, yet the polls taken show how bible illiterate christians are in this nation. They are not doing what God told them to do, that’s the problem PRIDE. They have forgotten their first love and Jesus said if they don’t repent, He will remove their lampstand (only God himself determines when). The “dones” are not done, we are just beginning to finally learn how to walk according to the spirit and stop walking according to the flesh. We are seeking the LORD with all our hearts, minds and souls and are reading ALL the scripture and drawing near to our God and He is drawing near to us. He said to seek HIS face and our hearts are crying, your face LORD we shall seek. We are DISCIPLES (CHRIST FOLLOWERS, not man followers). We are rooted and grounded in His love. I pray with all my heart before Almighty God, that He will continue to awaken His Sons Church and draw them back to Himself and unite us as ONE BODY, just as Jesus prayed the night before He was arrested. Father, sanctify us in Your truth, Your word is truth. I pray that our LORD will open the eyes of the spiritually blind and help them to see the simple truth found only in JESUS CHRIST. You can not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you become like little children. Abba Father, show us our error and lead us into YOUR TRUTH! In Jesus precious name. AMEN
[…] by sociologists Josh Packard and Ashleigh Hope. They reveal the true reasons a mass exodus of “The Dones” from American churches is […]
Thom, homerun post again. Thanks for your continued contribution. This post, along with the other one you wrote, was included in my aggregation on the subject of the “dones” here: http://www.robwilkerson.net/2015/05/nones-dones-undones-and-not-dones-my.html. The post also includes my own introductory comments, along with a list of facebook groups, podcasts, and books I’ve either listened to, read personally, or am about to read. Hope you and others find it helpful in tracking this thing.
Yep – lots of well intentioned “church leaders” become “permission givers” (as well as “gate keepers” and “retention specialists”) because they think that’s the role in shepherding the “local church” – But the Apostle Paul celebrated the fact that the church did not and could not afford to rely on such temporal skills or measurements and in fact the local church has always been a spiritual entity – part of a broader spiritual ecosystem (Irwin McManus “The Unstoppable Force”). As such, numbers of people in a geographical area may constitute a local spiritual community but that community cannot be not defined by a 501c3 status, a church name, nor by its man-defined mission, vision and values statements. A spiritual entity cannot be hung on an org chart, run as a business nor obviously be contained within a building. (See Jesus’ words to Nicodemus John 3:8: People who are of Born of the Spirit [The Church] are “like the wind” – you can’t say “where they’re coming from”, “here they are”, or “they’re going over there”). Obviously Jesus said He alone builds His Spiritual Church and only He can accurately identify who and where His children are…And more importantly as the Head of His Church – He gives us our mission….and the greatest of these is to Go and Make (new) Disciples (Matt 28:18-20). And it seems that while Jesus is intent on reaching the lost in our communities through His Church (Eph 3:10, 2Cor 5:14-20) He also promises to provide those who GO to bear the fruit of new disciples, His own personal Joy (John 5:1-11….How much Joy is that?)……. But all kinds of reputable Christian/non-Christian researchers show that about 95% of church-going Christians in the West never share Jesus with anyone….So it follows that Christ may very well be allowing many good-hearted church-goers to find themselves increasingly bored and unsatisfied with doing church – because He is calling them (beyond their initial level of understanding) to “live sent” among the lost in our communities. (John 20:21). As they respond to the deep Spiritual Calling, they feel guilty at first (and even looked down upon by their church-friends), but in time if they detox from western folk ecclesiology, they begin to experience a joy and purpose far greater than “attending church”. As the exodus continues, its understandable that many Pastors (and congregants) who see that leadership and other skills as the real factor in church size; dig deeper into their bag of tactics, marketing, and program design to attract/retain more folks. This has led to an unprecedented explosion in expensive seminars, programs and books being written about developing our human skills in church-growth, church retention, leadership development etc. But the outcome is more money spent on internal gadgetry, high pastor turn over and church hopping/sheep stealing. Most sadly, many churches and congregants believe that temporally winning in the church growth game is a sign of good decision making with God’s blessing. So the tweaking is intensified. Church-growth industry rakes in millions of congregation’s dollars, while increasing numbers of churches struggle to pay salaries, keep the lights on and survive as a 501c3 ….and the death spiral in our communities accelerates! The passage that is so often thrown down at those departing contemporary church models (Heb 10:23-25) when read carefully, reveals that the kind of church gathering we’re not supposed to forsake are the ones that are actually focused on spurring one another into re-deployment! And truly it’s the stagnant, self-focused gatherings that redemptive-minded people are getting bored with, and it’s the mission-focused gatherings that Christ is eventually driving them into. Christ has always been focused more on the deployed mission He gave the Church than making things easy or comfortable on the church (Luke 15:3-7) Until pastors of churches that are vastly barren of new disciple makers learn and embrace Christ’s priority for the local church…God will continue to drive out those that would be more committed to His mission….He is apparently not passionate about supporting those that would in futile effort, try to build or maintain a self-focused, stagnant institution. Jer 2:13
“My people have committed two sins:
They have forsaken me, the spring of living water,
and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water”
Amen
[…] I am increasingly fascinated–and learning–is what one notable blogger calls “The Dones.” These are (at least some of) the people the recent Pew Research Study was about. Contrary […]
I grew up in church and raised my children in church. It has always been a source of strength and comfort as well as social life. My parents are gone, my kids are grown and I am divorced. I get very sad now when I go to church. I have never been to, or been in a church alone. I moved to far nw Washington state recently. I have made no friends and looked for a church with no luck. I do not feel comfortable in them. I do feel a great void in my life and praying for it to be filled. I never thought I would feel this way. I never thought church would not be part of my life anymore.
[…] “Dones.” It’s a term sociologists and researchers use to describe those who are done with church. The Dones were once part of a church, but have become disillusioned for a variety of reasons and […]
[…] ‘The Rise of the Dones’ in November that prompted over 500 comments. In May he wrote ‘Done with Church, but not with God’ and quoted from a new book ‘Church Refugees’ by Josh Packard and Ashleigh Hope that has […]
Matthew 18:20 pretty much sums it up:
“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
[…] “Dones.” It’s a term sociologists and researchers use to describe those who are done with church. The Dones were once part of a church, but have become disillusioned for a variety of reasons and […]
[…] “Dones.” It’s a term sociologists and researchers use to describe those who are done with church. The Dones were once part of a church, but have become disillusioned for a variety of reasons and […]
This is brilliant – I am ‘done’ lisa
[…] MAY 12, 2015 BY THOM SCHULTZ […]
With what I call, “a shot across the bow” with Kim Davis in Kentucky, the movement of good Christians out of the church may be part of Revelation 18:4, “…Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins,..” I’m not calling the church, Babylon, but the church has immersed itself in the worlds ‘fornication’ when it comes to all the ‘things’ the world has to offer. Along with ‘covetousness’ of worldly things that drive us all from spending time with God, many churches are now approving gay marriage and re-interpreting God’s word to justify it. Either this or churches just don’t preach against such sin out of fear.
The fall of morals and ethics in our culture is going to bring its own punishment. Either the majority of people follow God’s laws by choice and we have a peaceful and moral country or because of the violence and crime that come with the lack of morals and ethics, the government is forces to be tyrannical to keep the peace and everyone will be forced to follow government law by force.
This shot across the bow may be the last chance for our country as a whole to wake up but I suspect most are blind to what is coming. Most are gloating saying, “Ha, ha, ha” to the church and not seeing they are putting themselves into slavery of a growing more oppressive and tyrannical government.
God will judge those that live outside of His way. This appears at the surface to be legitimate, but it never mentions the offences being judged. There are offences worthy of being judged. In the day of the apostles if you committed adultery, were a thief, liar, etc., you were pointed out publicly. The problem today is that even the church has become so politically correct that many of the deacons in the church are the primary adulterers, as well as some of the preachers. People have no fear of being judged because of political correctness. The Bibles actually states that the church is to judge those within, not those that are not of the church. God stated that He would handle them. It is the churches job to judge Biblically. If the Bible says “thou shall not…” and its members are participating in these sins, then God will judge the church for not judging its members. The reason the murder rate is so high in Brazil and America today is because the sinner is given more rights than the victim. The church cannot destroy the soul, but God can. If you fear the judgement of man more than the judgement of God, well…..!!! Now, if someone is being nit-picky with others, then the pastor and the member need to approach that member and point out the sin of gossip, or whatever. More than likely the member will repent. If they do not, excommunicate them. That is the proper way, but there are not many members or pastors that want to handle it the proper way. The pastor may even preach a message about causing strife in the church, but the odds are the offender will miss that Sunday, or will totally miss the point. Do it the “right way” and the results will astound you.
You have it right! We have fallen into the “hands” of the world in repeating what they do. Let us follow God and His instructions to be at peace.
I could have written every word of this. What is surprising to me is that I’m actually part of a “trend”; that never happens. I was the Christian teased by Christians for being too Christian. The mom who volunteered at every service she went to in the nursery. The teen who knew there was a social group but rarely felt included, in part because her family who had attended for years was made to feel like we didn’t belong, and, worse, like we were not worth that church’s time or focus. Who got preached at weekly for money. Who heard from the pulpit that when other Christians left it was because they were headed down the slippery slope and led by the Devil. Who found out after leaving that the pastor’s son was a pedophile. And, why have I left? To protect my kids from this. They don’t need the 4 walls of a church building to find God. How do I know? My parents didn’t: they found God when someone knocked on their door at a worst point in their lives. They ended up at a coffeehouse gathering. Personally, I found God’s presence far, far stronger in the room with my stillborn child–when I needed Him most–than at any of the judgmental, overbearing, and faux-faith experiences I’ve had elsewhere. And, boy, do I prefer your term over “backslider”: I am absolutely a “done”!
This is about the only thing I agree with from the lips of a pope “At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us…. But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known. And this is what it means to belong to the Church. Remember this well: to be Christian means belonging to the Church. ” (pope Francis – June 2014)
How can you be part of the body of Christ but not be part of the body of Christ? Jesus said that the world will know we are His disciples when we love each other. Someone who refuses to be part of a church is certainly saying “I don’t love those people [enough to worship with them]”
Thank you, I’m relieved there is other people out there like me!
Thank you, looking forward to reading your book
Deja vu all over again! We experienced this in the late 60’s/early 70’s. Time for revival!
Very very true to scripture..and most comforting because the church in my exp has done more to hurt me than anything else.
“Religion is what’s left when the SPIRIT has left the building ” BONO
I’m done but I still attend hoping for the awaking to Christ. So many people lost in Christianty that is no longer Christian in its belief. Did I leave the church or did the church leave me? Where are the signs that follow our belief in him (last chapter of Mark)?
My faith is better now, his love is in me, I feel more compassion for my brother, when I pray it’s all about him . The church when got it wrong when they made it about its leaders, men that filter and soften the word of God and condition it to their purpose. Christ has never left us, we left him when we instutionionlized his Holy Word. And Works…..
My Husband and I feel when we go to seek out a Church, and find it unscriptural, we don’t feel right by staying at that church and to keep praying for the pastor to have boldness to preach the full Word, because it is going against the preachers own desires and visions. No matter how much we want to stay, I feel we have been forced out. We have grown more away from church, I find church a distraction to a close walk with the Lord.
Things are so serious now, while dying to our worldly desires so we can really walk in the spirit.
Becoming less of ourselves so Jesus can reign supreme in our lives.
I write a list of all people that I know who need salvation & any basic need of all healing and pray over the list when I think of it, God is moving on all their lives.
Im also a refugee. I had to leave the man made entity so I could hear from Jesus. I knew He was tugging at my heart and spirit to listen to Him because I was praying for clarity and answers. The Lord did answer my prayers loud and clear.No matter who agrees or disagrees with the church function today, its clearly a man made business in competition with other churches. Its a very well oiled machine thats full of pride and self reliance. It has no need of Jesus because men are doing a fine job keeping it up and running on their own. As soon as anyone has a problem and comes against leaders for false teaching or lack of concern for Gods people, they are rebuked and told to sit down, shut up or leave. This happens behind closed doors most of the time because Satan has many of his own followers at the pulpit and church leadership. Those that are too blind to see or are too scared to speak from fear of being forced to leave, sit back and stay silent even though inwardly they are in spiritual turmoil. This is why many of us are leaving it, because in reality, its a false entity.
Thank you, Sherry. It takes real conviction to speak as clearly as you do, and you made your points clearly and without anger. It breaks my heart to see the reality of the church as a business enterprise or a club. Even more so, the very thing that Jesus prayed for, unity, is swept aside in the competition and ego of each local organization. Although they will never admit it openly (or even to themselves), pastors are pleased when a family transfers in from a church across town or down the road. It pushes hidden ego buttons that makes them think they are doing something better than the “other churches.” Hard time right now for seekers of truth.
I found this page by searching for ‘are there any churches left that model true Christianity?’ It saddens me to read all your comments about your disillusionment and disappointments in the church structure today, but I totally understand. I am ‘between churches’, and have been for several years. I cannot seem to find a good ‘fit’. I do realize there are no perfect churches, but I have a real need to find something as close to the early church as possible. Foundations built on Christ and the teachings of the apostles, self-discipline and obedience to the Word, sacrificial love, what a ‘true’ Christian should look like, what to do when you are feeling judgmental and where and if that fits in a true Christian (it doesn’t, but we still must speak the truth in love when appropriate with humility, remembering our own failings and weaknesses), what modesty looks like (a huge on for me today and one I am now practicing in my own life), integrity, honesty, truthfulness at the cost of ourselves, holiness, honor to God in all we do, kindness, gratitude, thankfulness, meekness, gentleness, how to correctly determine what the scriptures mean – exegesis!, in context, and so much more. I have been through 3 denominations – Lutheran as a child, Baptist during my teens, then Pentecostal which became Charismatic which then started teaching the false doctrine of Word of Faith/Prosperity/etc. I can see where many struggle with what is being taught in churches today.
Out of absolute desperation and a need for real balance in my thinking, I finally began searching, reading, studying the scriptures daily, setting aside much of what I had been taught in the Pentecostal/Charismatic church to be able to see the ‘real’ truth, as presented in the Bible. I eventually added in Matthew Henry’s Complete Commentary – that helped a lot!
God has been so faithful in showing me first of all, Myself – my hypocrisy, my failings and weaknesses, my pride, my rebellion, my sin. Seeing all that has humbled me, and helped to clean out that stuff that is such a stumbling block and wall of sin between myself and God (I am still a work in progress, but progress has been made, thank God!). Shone the light on the false indoctrination I was subjected to (and questioned at the time), some of my life choices, and Patterns of Thinking that plagued me and caused me much trouble and problems over my life. (I had suffered from depression years ago).
I said all this to say, that I found more Biblical truth on my own time than I remember finding in the churches I attended (note: I did not read my Bible much while going to church – my bad!). And perhaps that is where we as Christians need to go back to — really studying for ourselves, so we can recognize what True Christianity looks like. I would advise be very careful of your choice of study material outside the Bible. There are loads and loads of ‘Christian’ books out there that you want to stay away from. Matthew Henry is a pretty safe choice to start with. He was around before the whole Pentecostal movement, and the newer ones, so his perspective and comments on the Bible were most helpful there.
I now have more knowledge of what God expects of me, a more stable, steadfast real faith and trust in God, built on a firm solid rock foundation with resolve to stand on it no matter what the cost, with God’s help. I have found what is of real and true VALUE, a Pearl beyond price, a GIFT I didn’t deserve, a Truth that stands the test of time, above all cultures, the same always, the one Unchanging Truth of God’s Word, and a LIVING GOD. Praise Him always!
Let me add one important comment: In order to see the Truth of the scriptures, you must rise above CULTURE. Culture is subjective, relational truth, and it’s always changing. Not the truth of the Bible. God is ABOVE all culture, around the world. So don’t see God THROUGH culture, look at culture THROUGH God, the lens of the Bible. This will help you separate what is culture, and what is real Truth. I had to separate myself from most TV, ungodly books and media, and really take a look at what I was ‘ingesting’, and why my Christianity seemed to be such a struggle. Well, I was feeding myself from both sides of the fence! If I only spend 15 – 30 min a day in the Bible, and 4 hours watching ungodly content, which do you think is going to have a bigger influence? This was a big revelation to me. To discipline my flesh in this matter took some work, but doing so exercised that really weak muscles called ‘obedience’ and ‘self-discipline’. I don’t like self discipline, but the rewards are so very worth it!
If you’ve gotten this far, I thank you for reading my comment and that it helps you in some way, and pray that you find the fellowship that God has in mind for you.
PS: My comments about Pentecostal/Charismatic churches were not meant to be offensive, rather an observation of my experience, and my study into some of the doctrinal issues in these churches.
Great story!! God bless you for your gracious spirit.
Great to read your comments, Sue M. Thank you for being so transparent and honest. I became a Christian in late high school, and set out to find a group practicing real New Testament Christianity. I was a part of such a fellowship for a few short years before I went back to school to study for the ministry. There, I was caught up in the system, and for 40 years preached and operated within the institutional church. I believe God used me and many others around me during that time, but there was also a great deal of hurt and destruction during those years. In the few years since I have “left” the ministry, I find myself closer to God than ever before, and growing in the Spirit in so many new ways. I am one of the “dones”, but find myself caught up in more real ministry than ever before. The church of Constantine, which still dominates how we view what church is today, is much different than the church of Jesus practiced by the early believers. Having had a taste of that real thing so many years ago, still gives me hope that it can exist still today. God bless you in your search.
Support you all the way, Roy!
GREAT! thanx 4 taking the time to share a part of your journey so far.its now 2019,feb 24th and i hope you are still moving forward towards Him who is our Beloved.I too hav left the Church and am searching to find where i am meant to be,here in Wellington,New Zealand.Its not easy this path,but Jesus didn’t talk about ‘The Easy Way’.i hav not abandoned my faith in Christ;just man centered Religion.I hav a long way to go,tons to learn,and unlearn too.Again,thankyou.
Done with the typical, critical, judgmental, thou art holier, legalistic, pharisees minded church community!
I rather commune with my Heavenly Father and His Word…our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!♡
Either they are not in tune with the Spirit of Truth, not walking in Love and Truth, or they simply has no capacity to encourage and see things from God’s perspective !
So you can’t share life in the most honest approach….ended up with pretentious, fake and obnoxious community in the church context!
Acts 2 church community is the True church community model but sad to say mostly are running after earthly possessions and selfish ambition ….failing to look to the interest of others!
About describes many of us…we love the Lord Jesus Christ and know Him as our Savior but have come to realize that so many of these Churches are really not Scriptural, being too focused on money, self-generated doctrine and covenants, mired in dogma and looking for growth at the expense of spirituality.
Hi to my dear “called out ones” in Christ It’s been over 30 years now since I’ve left the institution they call church. My persecution over these many years have been great, but Jesus has been closer than a brother to me. I have had church in laundry mats, coffee shops, streets, grocery stores, and wherever I see a broken heart or lost soul. The “church building almost robbed me of my calling and leaving cost me the life as I knew it. I was shunned, not only by the building I went to (called a full gospel church), but also by most if not all the other 40 buildings in the area. My husband was a pastor. He was abusive to me and my son. Rumors were soon spread about me among other believers. Even after 30 years, the rumors follow me from town to town. But Jesus has never left me and I have been so blessed, so persecuted, so beaten up and so incredibly blessed by the presence , strength, encouragement and love from Jesus Himself. Yes the road has been narrow and very difficult at times, but yet I am given strength to endure, to go on, to become the vessel Christ is molding me into. I am Free to be lead 24/7 by the precious Holy Spirit, and often when I am at my weakest point is when He uses the most. Do not fear my dear brothers and sisters. The Lord will give you sweet fellowship with others from time to time, and certainly sweet fellowship with Him all the time.. Do not worry what others say, do not fear what man can do, They persecuted Jesus………they will persecute you as you follow Him just the same as He was persecuted. Psalm 147:11 We bring great pleasure to God when our hope is in HIm alone!
Come out of her my people so you do not share in her fornication….. the “Dones” are coming out of the church system, and relying on the love of God to guide them.
My husband and I are called out ones as well. We watch online church service and are blessed with that. I’ve been feeling the Holy Spirit calling us out of the institution called “church” for a long time. We realize, we are the church and not the building. Its such a relief to be away from, from what I like to call, a type of bondage. We’ve been learning more on our own than in any building, that its mind bottling, yet refreshing.
Hi Lisa…. I was called out over 30 years ago. I have walked with Jesus, trusted Jesus and the way has not been easy, but…….I have been blessed with His presence, His guidance and most of all His Love. I am still finding to this day that because I do not belong to an established (gathering), then I am not accepted by the others. How sad is this? I am sure it breaks the Lord’s heart to see such dis-unity. My heart has always been for the lost since He saved me in 1980. LIke Jesus, I spend more time with sinners. I testify to them and the LOrd gives me many testimonies to share, like Paul. I have been persecuted for speaking the truth for many many years. I hate evil and I stand against it, especially while working for the school board for many years. Although the trials were many, Jesus stood beside me, answered my cries and strengthened me when needed. The road truly is narrow and often lonely. I find it confusing and often sureal to be around many “church goers”. It’s like they live in a bubble. They are afraid of persecution, I do believe and that is why they prefer to stay in there bubble, not to mention they are taught through fear, to fear even me. The wonderful words of Jesus tell us to love even our enemies. If I were an enemy to them, then they are not following Jesus. I have learned to love those who persecute me, and to pray for those who hate me. Are they not to do the same? I am from Canada. I live in a little town hours away from my family, friends and coworkers. I had to flee because of the persecution. In Canada the persecution here is no different than in China’s three-self churches. They are not allowed to preach the gospel outside of the church, nor preach the book of revelation, nor teach children to be deciples of Jesus. In Canada, our persecution is coming from the inside. I believe that is why the organganized religions do not pay taxes. They are not a threat to Satan at all! I have learned that the enemy, our enemy(for we deal not against flesh and blood) only feels threatened by those of us who live the truth. By obeying Jesus in my daily walk, I have been hated by my sons, most if not all organized religions and have been rejected by all. I will never stop being an ambassador for Christ. There is no turning back. There is no other like Jesus. I have seen many miracles when witnessing to the unsaved. I know we are in the last days, and we are truly blessed to be part of these times.
I thankyou for your testimony and I am so happy that you and your husband have decided to lean on Jesus only, for as Paul says in Acts chapter one. I have not been taught by man, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ! I pray for you both that our heavenly Father who has adopted you will continue to show you His plans and His purposes in your lives. Stay always close to Jesus and pray for those who are still bound by religion.
Love in Christ
Joanie Ray
Thank you for writing me back. Love the testimony. Do you feel that the Holy Spirit is actually calling out people from the brick and mortar building and teaching them how to lean on Him only? I know the rapture is gonna happen very very soon
Hi Lisa,
In answer to your question. ….. Yes….I have met many believers who have left the “so called church” for various reasons. I have met over the years church in laundry mats, on the street, in coffee shops and even among the many homeless. We all have one thing in common….The Lord Jesus Christ! He is providing for his sheep whom have left the man made religions full of man’s wisdom and programs. This is what the Lord says about them and what He is doing for His sheep….
Ezekiel Chapter 34
Son of man, prophecy against the shepherds, What sorrow awaits you shepherds who feed yourself instead of your flocks. Shouldn’t shepherds feed their sheep? You drink the milk, wear the wool, and butcher the best animals, but your let your flocks starve. You have not taken care of the weak. You have not tended the sick or bound up the injured. you have not gone looking for those who have wandered away and are lost. Instead, you have ruled them with harshness and cruelty. So my sheep have been scattered without a shepherd, and they are easy prey for any wild animal. They have wandered through all the mountains and all the hills, accross the face of the earth, yet no one has gone to search for them………
7-Therefore, you shepherds , hear the word of the Lord As surely as I live, ….You have abandoned my flock. I now consider these shepherds my enemies, and I will hold them responsible for what has happened to my flock, I will take away their right to feed the flock, and I will stop them from feeding themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, the sheep will no longer be their prey…..
34:11 ” ………I myself will search and find my sheep. I will be like a shepherd looking for His scattered flock. I will find my sheep and rescue them from all the places where they were scattered………
The Lord shows His anger of the sheep being scattered,….but Praise the Name of Jesus….He says He alone will be our shepherd……He alone rescues His sheep”…..He looks for the lost, injured and weak sheep. He alone seeks us out and takes care of us….It’s all about Jesus! He is now seeking the lost all around the world because, yes we truly are in the last days. I am so blessed about the muslums now who are getting saved by the millions…from having visions and dreams and running to churches asking who Jesus is…..Also I am so happy to hear how after being saved by Jesus ….(and not losing their fire for the Lord, through organised man made religions) are reaching out to those confined in lukewarm and dead “so called churches”.. God is moving with His own Hand and many are coming to Jesus worldwide! I share these testimonies to all “church goers” who do not seem to be aware at all of what mighty works our Lord is doing.
The Lord Jesus is saving the millions of lost ones all over the world and the “so called churches” are oblivious to this!
It is just a matter of time that the organised religions will fall, and more sheep will be scattered. I believe that a great persecution against believers all around the world will come. And the great separation will begin. Possibly even in the next couple of years or sooner……It has always only been great persecution that has caused true followers of Christ to meet in hiding, and the true church growth of millions. They took Christ out of our schools many years ago, and have replaces teachings of God with communistic ideology and false religions are flourishing…..I see the downward spiral and infiltration of new age teachings in the “so called churches” . It is just a matter of time, and time is running out! But God has promised to pour out His Spirit in these last days, and it has begun! Praise His Wonderful Name!
Joanie Ray
I am glad this is finally being talked about. I think that most “churches” here in America have become stained by the world. They look and act more like the world than Jesus. I don’t want more of the world. I came to Christ because I wanted to be forgiven AND transformed by His power, to become more like Him, not the world. The world does things the opposite of God. I don’t want to be a part of that anymore. “Church” was becoming torturous, frustrating, stiffling. I started to feel such “grief ” at the condition I saw, and their refusal to self -reflect and hold up the mirror of Gods word. Honestly, off the pulpit, they didn’t want to talk about Jesus or His word. Even in bible studies it is very superficial. I want to dig in His Word, I want to talk about Him. Lukewarm was the feeling I got from “church”. I tried for years, with several different ones. Carbon copies of one another is what I found. Individuality to express the varieties of effects and ministries and gifts of the spirit , just were not encouraged or wanted. “Sameness” was the model. Honestly, it felt like a middle school environment, with the popular kids getting all the attention and praise and most people being ignored. Don’t get me started at the “wounding” of Jesus precious blood bought sheep and it was ignored. I just couldn’t participate anymore. This wasn’t true fellowship and intimacy. This wasn’t a family, but an organization and people were objects to get work and money from, a total lack of LOVE, compassion, and mercy. It just wasn’t the body of Jesus Christ, but looked more like a worldly business, and cutthroat at that. Too much divisiveness and hyper-focus on attending only one church “always”, never going and fellowshipping with other believers. It was thought of as some kind of disloyalty. The body of Jesus Christ is not a man-made building, it is a “living” body of believers, located all over the world. A family. It is united in Christ and in love, even when you have never met them in the flesh, you still care for them, hurt when they are hurting, and pray for them with diligence when you hear of their sufferings. Why? Because they are your family in Christ. It is stiffling when we are told to stay in one building, in one place, and not interact with someone else just because they attend a different building once a week or more. We are “mobile” temples of God, and if two or three gather in His name any place, He said that He (Jesus) is there among us. Serving God is not just done in or through a specific building, but in every place, and every day. Just because you are not on some “church” ministry, on a scheduled plan, does not mean you are not serving others with your spiritual gifts. That can happen anywhere , at any time and you don’t have to “blow a trumpet” every time you do it. It is enough that God sees. I’m just glad we can finally call a spade a spade, and stop fearing what others are going to say. Jesus is the head of the church, I take my orders from Him. If you are telling me something, which goes against His instructions, I won’t listen. Jesus is my LORD, not man. I’m done remaining silent on this issue. It needs to be addressed.
When an individual Done person writes about this on their blog, they are accused of being “toxic” and “critical.” When a researcher says the exact same thing with stats and jargon, it is applauded as insightful. Dones have said these things over and over and over and over, and were ingored until churches felt it in the pocketbook.
Where the spirit of the Lord is not his sheep will not follow, most churches are hollow where there once was warmth there is now cold, where there once was welcoming there is now snottiness. Without the true church (his servants)these things will surely be absent empty places for the bats to habitat and the crows to feed on those that are dead in Christ…. Religion is what I just described. Jesus surly does not inhabit these places…. So him and his servants have left the Holy spirit the one that guides and directs with not be present did you know you don’t need a pamphlet to start a church service all you need is the Holy spirit he is our teacher lest no man teach you….
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Great article and a bunch of great comments. I’ve had issues with ‘church’ all my life.
Back when I was in my 20’s and a full time mechanic I offered (free) to maintain a small fleet of busses on Saturdays for one church in Fresno, CA. After about 3 months I was comfortable with the condition and safety of the busses so I took a Saturday off. The next Saturday when I sowed up the pastor called me in his office and said, “I want you to take your tools home with you, you said you’d be here every Saturday and you weren’t here last Saturday. I was 22 at the time and I was devastated. My heart felt like a 100 pound stone landed on it.
It seems no matter how much I try to fit in churches or in “Christianity” too often I’m either condemned for being non-Trinitarian – condemned for going to church on Sunday, or condemned for my eschatological beliefs, etc., etc. Christians all believe they possess the truth, yet they can’t agree on anything. Most local Churches are financially mismanaged, and have their priorities all screwed up. I’m about done with the church I’m currently going to. When you have lesbian pastors who preach more about LGBTQ issues and being trans, and Jesus could have been gay, saying the government “can and should fund gender reassignment operations,” and Pastors saying Jesus could have died of old age and we’d all still be saved …..it’s time to go.
On the whole “church” has become a business that chastises their customers if they choose not to patronize their business.
I was raised in this culture and I understand the group think that is pervasive throughout the community. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together which is the mantra that they always quote. I’m sorry but I assumed that where there are two or three gathered in His name, He, the Lord would meet with us.
We have been so dumbed down since the founding of the organized church by Constantine that we suffer to this day with a co-dependancy mentality that leaves most of those that sit in the pews powerless to break from its grip.
I submit to all of you that the Apostle Paul spoke rather poignantly about the peril of not progressing in Christ.
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
If you look at each one of these teachings you will quickly discover that this is what all churches of today major in, that which is elementary. Who then will lead us into perfection or maturity? If 99% of pastors cannot even grasp the elementary things how will we ever become mature in Christ? We have entire ministries and denominations build on these rudamentry things. This is not to say they are not important. On the contrary they are the foundations upon which we build, Christ being the Chief Cornerstone. Yet we have not even mastered these fundamental teachings. Could this be the possible reason for all of the abominations of the temple that Ezekiel spoke of?
This is what I see as the great issue of our time and just maybe those that have been called out of this merry-go-round of childish games to entertain the saints are the remnant priests that will lead many out of bondage to discover what Paul spoke of in Ephesians,
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
I cannot say with absolute certitiude that I am right about this but the one thing I do know is that He Yahweh has always preserved a remnant unto Himself to serve the purpose of His will in the earth. How large is that remnant? I cannot say but rest assured it is alive and well on the earth today.
Lest I seem prideful or as if I am boasting let me confess before you and Him that I am not. I have not figured this all and I do not understand all misteries. I am but a country boy seeking for his Creator. I sometimes fall short but never a day goes by that I do not hunger for more of Him, desire to be in His prescence, or to bring the beautiful light of Christ to those that are seeking for truth.
I am not convince that the path forward for those that want the deeper things of God can be found in what most people call the church. We all see the devastation from the ceturies of men controlling the sheep and not tending to them. Who will be the shepherds to the sheep that escape the pen? I don’t know but possibly there are a few shepherds in the wilderness like John the Baptist,
“Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way, the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’”
Todd, You are so right. My church seems to be just going through the motions. Checking the boxes and doing the same old traditional items that have been done for fifty or sixty years. Yawn….. Where is the love for God and Humanity. Not here anymore.